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Complete system revamp for improved content quality?

Discussion in 'The Forum Wheel' started by KenBrace, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Hi everyone. So a lot of people have been having issues with content quality lately so I've been considering the possibility of a complete system revamp.

    Instead of the usual Gateway approval system, perhaps it would be better to do something along these lines...
    • Short questionnaire about who they are, where they live, how old they are, etc.
    • Next is a Skype interview with either myself or a moderator here.
    • After that is complete, they will be given a test and asked to write about something to prove their skills.
    • They will then be given a run down of all the rules and guidelines to be aware of. They will also be warned about how serious it is that they maintain quality content.
    • Finally, we will provide them with a rating and they will be allowed to post.

    One thing to keep in mind is that if we decided to go through with this, all writer applications and ratings would be terminated first. Everyone would then have to reapply through this new system. We would also redesign the scripts to provide us with an incoming feed of all the posts being made and an automated alert system to tell us if someone is doing a bad job.

    I feel like this sort of environment and approval system would be much more effective than what is currently in place. The only question is whether or not it is worth the effort. The effort of both myself (this will take a LOT of work) and of the writers who have to resubmit their applications.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. pwarbi

    pwarbi Well-Known Member

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    Would it not just be easier to suspend applications from writers for now, and concentrate on tidying up and removing the writers that you have got that aren't very good? Suspending/deleting their accounts and asking them to re-apply would be a lot easier than deleting every writer and effectively starting TFW all over again.

    The Gateway that's in place now is similar to how other paid forum posting sites approve writers, I just think that those who have looked at the submissions have been too lenient and that's why there are writers on here that aren't upto the standard that forum owners want.

    Just my opinion anyway...
     
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  3. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Well, the problem is that it's too easy to get past the system, create duplicate accounts, etc. It's too anonymous and a lot of people are able to fake their way through. There also isn't enough accountability. I get a lot of complaints about writers who have 4.0+ ratings. I check their content and it's awful. I'm thinking, how on Earth did they get the rating they did?

    I think the Skype interview would definitely help because it reveals the person's identity and they know that if they do a bad job and bust their account, then they have no second chance.

    But yeah, you're right that it would be a lot of work. My fear is that these bad writers will just popping up and will ruin the reputation of TFW (if they haven't already).
     
  4. pwarbi

    pwarbi Well-Known Member

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    I get that, but if you suspend people from applying for now, go through the writers you have already got (is there about 550?) and revoke the ones with low ratings say anything less than a 3, then message and warn the writers that are below 4 that should help the situation. The fact that the application process is suspended will mean they can't apply again under a different name anyway and in future when the suspension is lifted the gateway checking will be a lot more strict so they won't be able to get in again anyway.

    I'm not saying this will happen, but if you effectively fire everyone off and tell them they all have to re-apply even though they have made like 3000+ posts and have a high rating, a lot will simply not bother re-applying and you'll have lost the writers that you did want to keep as well as the ones you was trying to get rid of in the first place.
     
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  5. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Perhaps the best option would be to remove all accounts with a rating below 4.0 and then change the approval process from this point forward. There will still be bad writers in the system but we should be able to weed them out over time.

    Well it's already fairly strict but the problem is that people can fake their content. They just pay someone online to do the posting for them or they spin content well enough that our plagiarism checker can't detect it. Either that or they just do a really good job on the application and then start posting one liners in the actual forums.
     
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  6. pwarbi

    pwarbi Well-Known Member

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    That came across a little abrupt maybe, so I apologise for that. I didn't mean to suggest that you just let anybody in regardless of the quality, I just meant that maybe due to time or other factors you (or whoever) is relying too much on an automated process instead of manually checking the posts individually.

    Automated checks for plagiarism are obviously needed as one person can't check if content is unique or not across the millions of forums and sites out there, but grammar and spelling, the layout of a post can be checked manually and I bet those that apply with posts full of bad spelling and grammar are also the ones that are copying content at the same time, so by manually checking each post for those issues, you'll also be weeding out the ones that copy content as well to a certain extent.
     
  7. pwarbi

    pwarbi Well-Known Member

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    Going back to people verifying their accounts, I think there's a fine line between what you need to ask for to get the genuine writers and what information people are willing to give you. Real name, email address, location, time zone and even mobile number so a code could be sent to verify that as well is fine, and I wouldn't have any issue with that, but anything more than that and I have a feeling people won't want to divulge that kind of information just to sign up for an account on here. That isn't because they are dodgy, it's just because they simply won't want a site like TFW (no matter how secure it is) having that kind of personal information stored on it's system.

    That's nothing against you or the site personally, and I haven't worked it out but if the average writer can make $5 a week on here at the most depending on how many forums are listed and what rating they have, for the sake of earning that $5 I wouldn't be prepared to divulge personal information that could fall into the wrong hands as I'm sure you wouldn't either.
     
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  8. thisnthat

    thisnthat Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with a lot of what pwarbi is saying, and I don't think we are the only ones who would want to avoid starting all over.

    This makes a lot more sense to me.

    Maybe you can create a probationary period for newbies or something.
     
  9. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    That would be hard to do and it still wouldn't completely solve the problem. They would just wait for the demo period to expire and then lower the quality so they can make quick earnings.
     
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  10. Kaynil

    Kaynil Well-Known Member

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    It's too much, for you and for them.
    I think the rundown of the rules and expectations should be given from the very beginning before they are deep in the process and also sent as soon as they are accepted. Making sure every new writer is given a run down of what is expected and the common pitfalls like no bulk-posting, no copy-paste, no mentioning TFW, etc, etc.

    I don't think you need a questionnaire or skype calls. I understand it'd be to make sure is a real player, but they can lie and if they can have someone else make the initial posts at the gateway, couldn't they give you someone else's skype to pass that test as well?

    I think the gateway, albeit is not perfect it has had its uses. Maybe some tweaking can help. I think the gateway should work like the other communities and have a 3 posts a day or something limit. Also from the very beginning enforce the no bulk-posting and all the common rookie mistakes. If the gateway is our probation, then it should be in their rules and stuff. Writing is about taking time and days to deliver quality, having the gateway being able to be filled in one sitting might be part of what's working against us.



    Anyway, I have a crazy idea, what if you give communities the ability to opt-in to help as gateway communities?
    Forum owners are given the choice to opt-in to receive probation writers. They are explained that they will not cost credits but they are still subjected to the same stands of quality. Since they are newcomers a rating will be required by the end of the trial period. You could even entice them by paying them a few amount of credits for each newcomer they successfully host and rate.

    Make it to newcomers have to pass both the gateway and at least 1 real community. Make the gateway work like a normal community by limiting our daily quota to 3 posts a day or something. Increase the amount to 15 posts so we have to spend a week or close to it.

    Someone applies to become a writer. They get send the writers guidelines and expectations, they get asked for details to create an account so they can access the dashboard. They get placed in a probation category and have to subscribe to the, so their dashboard choices are limited. They can only see the forums that selected opt-in to serve as gateways.

    It is up to you if you want them to have the gateway be filled before the real community or if you allow them to do it along side. I think that even if probation is not swift writers will be up to the task and might discourage some of the 'too desperate for a quick buck to play by the rules' kind of people from even going through it.

    When they try to subscribe to one of those opt-in forums, that forum owner receives a notification that is expected to rate this member after X time. Make the newcomer writers fill the normal quota for a few days until they collect 15 posts or something and then have the forum owner rating him or her.

    Anyway, I think the idea of receiving free posts without having to pay credits could entice some forum owners to opt-in. You could even entice them by paying them a few amount of credits for each newcomer they successfully host and rate.
     
  11. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Yeah it would definitely be a lot of work.

    People are willing to create fake accounts on forums. Most people aren't going to go through the effort of getting someone to do the interview for them. It would definitely stop fake accounts.

    That would make things way more complicated than they already are. It would take a lot of work and it would probably just make matters worse.
     
  12. Alex

    Alex Member

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    I think the idea of testing all the writers again all because of a handful of poor writers who got through by whatever means will backfire. I know I referred and recommended a couple of writers, and one had a 5 rating, and I know he would not take the test again or even contemplate an interview.

    Your problem lies more with those who are scamming the system, and without sounding prejudiced these writers come from certain countries. Maybe you should suspend applicants from non-native English speaking countries and if they wish to apply they must do so, after passing the Gateway, and they can do a skype IM in real time. That would prevent them from using a translator or anyone else doing the test for them?

    What you don't want to do is deter good writers. For those writers that have been flagged with poor grammar maybe you need to decide what to do. Revoke them, or ask them to take another test?

    There are several discussion on Forum Coin on TFW and there are a handful of poor writers who are eagerly trying to use TFW. Judging by some of the posts, they are sub-standard and if they get through, then I can see many frustrated forum owners abandoning TFW.
     
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  13. kingcool52

    kingcool52 Well-Known Member

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    I feel like all that would be a lot of effort both for you guys and us, the writers. I think more people would be put off especially with the skype interview aspect
     
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  14. Kaynil

    Kaynil Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, never mind them then. I think right now is best not to do anything too risky or drastic. Overall I am liking the ideas that have been popping up in other threads and I the direction TFW seems to be taking.


    When it comes to the prospect of making money, I think you'd still find a few willing to, still point taken. I am just concerned it also reduces the amount of people willing to join as writers in general.

    There must be something else than a skype call that can help prove someone identity without being so invasive as a video call.
    I hope we can come up with some alternative ideas.
     
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  15. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Perhaps we could come up with some way to verify ID and writers could choose whether or not to do that.

    Site owners could choose whether or not to require a verified ID.

    The advantage of verifying your ID would be the opening of more writing opportunities.
     
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  16. biege

    biege Active Member

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    Let me share my thoughts about this. We all know that most employers these days doing online businesses prefer Skype in doing their interviews. Of course, if you do the interview this way, you get to know your people better. The only problem is, you might not be able to get a lot of writers and meet your quota. I personally like interviews to be done this way, however, there are people who are not good in interviews but excel more in writing. But since the purpose of this discussion is to filter good vs bad writers and to prevent them from creating multiple accounts, why not we do KYC to verify the identity of these writers? For me this is much faster and I've done this several times with my previous employers and even with Telcos.
     
  17. Cheeaka

    Cheeaka Well-Known Member

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    It will take a whole lot more than bad writers to ruin the reputation of TFW.

    Forum owners
    have their own growing pains that they go through when trying to get a forum up and running, and they continue to have issues when trying to sustain that forum. That's just the nature of things. They have more than their fair share of ups and downs, so they know that certain things come with the territory of running an online business.

    Writers want to see this site make it (can't you tell?), and they will continue to support you for years to come if you continue to lead, and be the captain of the ship. If you don't quit, this site will succeed. Period.
     
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  18. vij

    vij Member

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    The scarcity is not wrt to writers, its the sites. Starting a forum is not easy and forum owners want engaging content, not necessarily long, but engaging and interesting.

    When you approve writers, please don't just approve them on the basis of their grammar - approve them for their interest and inclination. Some people just don't like posting on forums, but do it like a chore and post robotic stuff - weed those out no matter how good their grammar.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
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  19. shadowpope17

    shadowpope17 Member

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  20. KenBrace

    KenBrace Well-Known Member Administrator

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    You make a good point here.

    While reviewing writers I've always bumped up the rating when the content was interesting. To me, if you can bring intelligence, interaction, and quality information to your posts then if makes up for imperfect grammar. It shows me that you genuinely enjoy posting on forums which is exactly the kind of person that will do well here.
     
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